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Regular REL » Post: Oracle wording - When to give?

Oracle wording - When to give?

Oct. 8, 2013 04:37:14 PM

Alex de Bruijne
Judge (Level 2 (International Judge Program))

BeNeLux

Oracle wording - When to give?

This situation came up during the Theros Boosterdraft FNM last friday.

Player Anthony is playing Nicolas and has played a disciple of Phenax during his previous turn.
He had enough devotion to look at all the cards in Nicolas hand.
This turn before attackers are declared he calls me over and asks:
What does the blue 3/2 creature do? And goes on that he defined it clearly enough for me to give the oracle wording.
I've refused this request stating that I didn't know which creature he was talking about (I really didn't), and although oracle wording is free information at regular REL, this is a matter of remembering what he saw previously.

Afterwards I was not completely sure about this ruling.
The questions remain:
- Was his description clear enough to get an oracle wording? (There is only one 3/2 blue creature in theros)
- Should oracle wording be given if a player can't remember a card that he saw in a previous turn but is now hidden information again?

Oct. 8, 2013 04:40:28 PM

Tim Hughes
Judge (Uncertified)

Australia and New Zealand

Oracle wording - When to give?

“I can only give you the oracle wording if you can uniquely identify the card. Can you tell me anything else about the card? A name, the creature type or types, or any of it's abilities?”

Oct. 8, 2013 04:44:23 PM

Lyle Waldman
Judge (Uncertified)

Canada - Eastern Provinces

Oracle wording - When to give?

IIRC Oracle Text is always free information provided the player can uniquely identify the card. In this case, if there is only 1 blue 3/2 creature in Theros (I don't know if that's true, but I'll take your word for it), that would be sufficient information to give him the Oracle Text. If you doubt that he has uniquely identified the card (perhaps you don't know offhand that there is only 1 blue 3/2 in Theros), you can ask him to be more specific, but I don't think it's ever OK to withhold Oracle Text on a card providing the player has provided a unique identifier for the card.

In this case, if it were me, I would have asked for more information. I had no idea until you mentioned it that there is only 1 blue 3/2 in Theros, so I'd need more information. However, I would not withhold the information provided a sufficient identifier was given.

Regarding giving information about a card in a hidden zone, I'm pretty sure this is irrelevant. Obviously you can't go onto the opponent's side of the table, take the card from their hand, read it, and hand the card back; that's not legit. However, a player is free to ask about the Oracle Text of any card at any time regardless of whether the opponent does/does not/may have it in their deck/hand/sideboard/etc. As you said, it's free information.

Oct. 8, 2013 04:53:07 PM

Alex de Bruijne
Judge (Level 2 (International Judge Program))

BeNeLux

Oracle wording - When to give?

Originally posted by Lyle Waldman:

If you doubt that he has uniquely identified the card (perhaps you don't know offhand that there is only 1 blue 3/2 in Theros), you can ask him to be more specific, but I don't think it's ever OK to withhold Oracle Text on a card providing the player has provided a unique identifier for the card.

I did not know at that time about the only 3/2 blue creature in Theros. But should I have paused the match while searching gatherer for every 3/2 blue creature in Theros? That seems a bit disruptive to me…

Oct. 8, 2013 05:14:48 PM

Jorge Requesens
Judge (Level 3 (International Judge Program))

Iberia

Oracle wording - When to give?

Originally posted by Alex de Bruijne:

Lyle Waldman
If you doubt that he has uniquely identified the card (perhaps you don't know offhand that there is only 1 blue 3/2 in Theros), you can ask him to be more specific, but I don't think it's ever OK to withhold Oracle Text on a card providing the player has provided a unique identifier for the card.

I did not know at that time about the only 3/2 blue creature in Theros. But should I have paused the match while searching gatherer for every 3/2 blue creature in Theros? That seems a bit disruptive to me…

Probably you should. This is about a right that a player has and customer service.

You can ask the player for more information in order to search. Also, if the card was played by his opponent, you can ask the opponent about the card that was seen previously. With all that information, you can perform the search in about 2-3 minutes.

Oct. 8, 2013 05:18:03 PM

Shawn Doherty
Judge (Level 5 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Midatlantic

Oracle wording - When to give?

You can ask followup questions to help clarify what he's looking for.
“Do you mean the one that has flash and untaps a creature?” etc.
If you think you know what he means, feel free to be helpful in providing
this free information.

Oct. 8, 2013 05:22:02 PM

Mark Mc Govern
Judge (Level 2 (International Judge Program))

United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa

Oracle wording - When to give?

A gatherer search should take less than a minute - filter to Theros, select blue, and quickly scroll through the list.

At FNM especially, I would go out of my way to assist. There's the event laptop, and any number of smartphones in the room. You can give the match an extra minute or two if needs be. It's hardly going to be too detrimental to the event. Especially compared to “Judge, what does this card do?” “I can't tell you”. That's a big feel bad moment.

Oct. 8, 2013 05:27:47 PM

Alex de Bruijne
Judge (Level 2 (International Judge Program))

BeNeLux

Oracle wording - When to give?

Thanks for all your replies.

The correct way of things is now clear to me.
I'll have a chat with the player at the next FNM and do a bit of apology.

Thanks again