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Knowledge Pool Scenarios » Post: Lights, Turtle, Action - SILVER

Lights, Turtle, Action - SILVER

Oct. 14, 2014 07:22:12 AM

Matt Farney
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Great Lakes

Lights, Turtle, Action - SILVER

I am definitely going to ask Arthur some additional questions, especially if this is constructed.

He has:
1. Resolved a delayed trigger at the wrong time (Should have been Nancy's turn)
2. Resolved a trigger he does not control (Nancy's trigger)
3. Resolved the trigger incorrectly. (Comes back into play on Nancy's side)

-mf

Oct. 14, 2014 07:31:13 AM

Matt Farney
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Great Lakes

Lights, Turtle, Action - SILVER

Originally posted by Eli Meyer:

Nancy controlled the original ability which created the delayed trigger. Since she “created” the delayed trigger controlled by the wrong player, you could argue that she's committed a GRV by resolving the original ability incorrectly.

This is a dangerous path to walk down. It's conceivable she could have said something like: “Exile the turtle until your next turn.” For me to buy “she played the initial trigger wrong”, it would take something overt like that.

I don't think there are any cards where one player plays an ability that creates a delayed trigger controlled by another player. (There may be, but none come to mind.)

-mf

Edited Matt Farney (Oct. 14, 2014 07:31:27 AM)

Oct. 15, 2014 07:21:12 AM

Nick Rutkowski
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Pacific West

Lights, Turtle, Action - SILVER

Thank you everyone for your responses. Many of you, off the bat, nailed this one exactly correct.

By putting the turtle in play and attacking with it Arthur receives a warning for a Game Rule Violation. The ”return to the battlefield attacking” trigger is controlled by the player who attacked with it on the previous turn, that’s Nancy. Since this was Nancy’s turtle and she didn't stop Arthur from attacking with the she will receive a Failure to Maintain Game State Warning.

The fix is that we are going to rewind to the declare attackers step, after Arthur has declared his attackers but before any triggers are put on the stack. To do that we need to correct the life totals then place the turtle back in the exile zone. Once everything is back to a working game state we are going to remind both players to play more carefully.

That’s it for this scenario, please tune in tomorrow for another exciting question.

Edited Patrick Vorbroker (Oct. 16, 2014 01:40:44 AM)

Oct. 15, 2014 11:32:09 PM

Michael Shiver
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Midatlantic

Lights, Turtle, Action - SILVER

Because Nancy controlled the trigger and didn't stop Arthur's mistake, why wouldn't the following apply?

Originally posted by IPG 2.5:

If a player takes an action called for by an effect controlled by his or her opponent, but does it incorrectly, both players receive a Game Play Error – Game Rule Violation.

Is it because there wasn't actually any effect calling for Arthur to take an action at the time he took it?

Oct. 15, 2014 11:49:42 PM

Kyle Connelly
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Northeast

Lights, Turtle, Action - SILVER

Originally posted by Nick Rutkowski:

The fix is that we are going to rewind to the beginning of the combat step.


Shouldn't we only go to declare attackers step, as that is when the error occured.

Oct. 16, 2014 12:18:15 AM

Nick Rutkowski
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Pacific West

Lights, Turtle, Action - SILVER

When rewinding, you should rewind to the first point AP has priority. The first thing you do at the beginning of declare attackers is to declare your attackers. No priority happens before this game action.

Oct. 16, 2014 12:52:20 AM

Patrick Vorbroker
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Academy)), Scorekeeper

USA - Midatlantic

Lights, Turtle, Action - SILVER

Michael - You're correct. Arthur didn't do an instruction incorrectly, he did one that doesn't exist. That's solely his fault.

Kyle - As Nick said, we're going to go all the way back to the point of the error. This trigger, as Arthur applied it, returned the towershell during his beginning of combat step, so we're rewinding to the point of the error.

Oct. 16, 2014 01:09:25 AM

Dan Collins
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 5 (Judge Foundry)), Scorekeeper

USA - Northeast

Lights, Turtle, Action - SILVER

Originally posted by Patrick Vorbroker:

Michael - You're correct. Arthur didn't do an instruction incorrectly, he did one that doesn't exist. That's solely his fault.

Kyle - As Nick said, we're going to go all the way back to the point of the error. This trigger, as Arthur applied it, returned the towershell during his beginning of combat step, so we're rewinding to the point of the error.

*ahem* declare attackers step - Towershell is supposed to enter *after* attackers are declared.

Perhaps you're saying that AP returned it during the wrong step as well as during the wrong turn, but I don't see anything in this scenario that suggests this.

Edited Dan Collins (Oct. 16, 2014 01:11:48 AM)

Oct. 16, 2014 01:43:30 AM

Patrick Vorbroker
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Academy)), Scorekeeper

USA - Midatlantic

Lights, Turtle, Action - SILVER

You're correct Dan, it appears both Nick and I incorrectly remembered the timing of the trigger. I've fixed the solution to reflect the correct rewind - it should be after attackers are declared, with Arthur receiving priority in declare attackers.

Sorry about our mistake on this one, everyone. Remember to always read the card!