Please keep the forum protocol in mind when posting.

Competitive REL » Post: Announcing triggered abilities (Storm)

Announcing triggered abilities (Storm)

Nov. 14, 2012 08:58:28 PM

Christian Fern
Judge (Uncertified)

German-speaking countries

Announcing triggered abilities (Storm)

so here is a situation that might occur:

Player A plays in a competitive REL legacy tournament (yes, they do exist). He just cast Ad Nauseam, drew an insane amount of cards, cast a whole lot of spells, knows that his opponent won`t have any way to interact and in the end casts Tendrils of Agony with a storm count of >10.
He does NOT annouce storm as a triggered ability.
After waiting for a few seconds, Player N would like to resolve Tendrils (the original spell) and upon further discussion, a judge is called.

I know that at a competitive REL we expect a more technical play from the players, but what should we do in a situation like this? Everybody knows that Player A should be the winner and it is common sense that Player N just accepts his loss in a situation like this. What if he does not and rules lawyers on the change in the IPG?

Nov. 14, 2012 09:05:23 PM

Toby Elliott
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Academy)), L3 Panel Lead

USA - Northeast

Announcing triggered abilities (Storm)

Given that the player is sitting there waiting for player B to die, I'd say that's acknowlegement.

Nov. 14, 2012 09:06:02 PM

Benjamin McDole
Judge (Level 1 (Judge Academy))

USA - Southeast

Announcing triggered abilities (Storm)

The answer is no. This situation is pretty clear and immediate. The policy is not in place to let people rules lawyer what is clearly the end of the game.

Nov. 14, 2012 09:09:14 PM

Mark Mc Govern
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy)), TLC

United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa

Announcing triggered abilities (Storm)

Toby - if we extrapolate that to Steppe Lynx's Landfall trigger, or exalted triggers, then are we not back where we were before the change in policy?

Nov. 14, 2012 09:18:13 PM

Toby Elliott
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Academy)), L3 Panel Lead

USA - Northeast

Announcing triggered abilities (Storm)

Originally posted by Mark Mc Govern:

Toby - if we extrapolate that to Steppe Lynx's Landfall trigger, or exalted triggers, then are we not back where we were before the change in policy?

I don't see how that extrapolates. The AP takes actions after a Steppe Lynx trigger that indicate the window has passed. What actions have been taken here? It's not like AP is about to attack or do anything interesting, since he believes NAP is dead.

Nov. 14, 2012 11:01:57 PM

Gustavo Otero De Leon
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

Hispanic America - North

Announcing triggered abilities (Storm)

just to have fun, what if he cast grape shot, with a storm counter of 18, but just says grape shot you, they both say ok, and he taps a staff of nim. they forgot to write down life totals before the staff's ability… is that an action enough for a gotcha, even if it seems pretty obvious that he wanted to target you 19 times with a grape shot and kill with the staff???

Nov. 15, 2012 06:13:13 AM

Christian Fern
Judge (Uncertified)

German-speaking countries

Announcing triggered abilities (Storm)

Originally posted by Gustavo Otero De Leon:

is that an action enough for a gotcha
or, a little more general:
What if NAP has an ability to do something irrelevant (cracking a fetchland, activate Sensei's Divining Top,…)?

This scenerio was brought up to me by a local player who is well known for rules lawyering and trying to gain every possible edge. So please donĀ“t get me wrong: I like the recent change to the IPG but I need some guideline on how to argue in a situation like this.

Nov. 15, 2012 07:07:55 AM

Paul Baranay
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 5 (Judge Foundry)), Grand Prix Head Judge

USA - Northeast

Announcing triggered abilities (Storm)

Christian, the trigger is only missed "once the controller of the trigger has taken action after the point at which the trigger should have resolved.“

Sure, NAP can activate Top or a fetchland and put that on top of the stack…

…and then, that will resolve, and we're right back at the original scenario, with Player A waiting for his opponent to die. :)

The storm player would have to do something that indicates Grapeshot has resolved and he's moving on (like saying ”okay, take 1 from my Grapeshot, now I cast Past in Flames") for the storm trigger to be considered missed.

Nov. 15, 2012 08:41:39 AM

William Stephenson
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Southeast

Announcing triggered abilities (Storm)

I think Paul has pointed out exactly where we are. The new policy tests whether players demonstrate awareness of their triggered abilities, not whether they say them aloud before “rules lawyers” can call them missed.

I feel like staring blankly at his opponent and saying “you're dead” while holding tendrils of agony above the middle of the table constitutes an acknowledgement. Similarly, getting to the verbal announcement of life total changes and saying, “you take 20, putting you to 0,” constitutes an acknowledgement.