I have two questions about new Competitive+ REL policies that go live tomorrow. I think I already know how I’d like to rule on both. I’m asking here anyway to bring some visibility to the issues and also in the hope of the discussion promoting consistent handling.

Question 1

From the new MIPG:

If a player is instructed to perform an action to a set of cards on the top of his or her library and adds too many cards to that set, the infraction is Drawing Extra Cards, but any remedy is applied to that set of cards.

Does the above paragraph include the instruction of drawing a card? For example, if a player reaches over to draw for the turn, but manages to pick up and see both the library's top card and next one down by accident, should we apply the reveal-and-opponent-chooses fix to those two cards?

I think the answer should be no, because seeing two cards isn't quite the same as performing the instructed action (drawing them) if those two have been kept separate from the rest of the hand. So, the DEC criteria hasn't been met, and this is merely LEC. Furthermore, “performing an action to a set of cards” just doesn’t quite sound like it describes drawing. However, I still feel there’s a strong case for this type of error matching the underlying philosophy of DEC, after all.

Question 2

From this web page:

103.4. Each player draws a number of cards equal to his or her starting hand size, which is normally seven. (Some effects can modify a player's starting hand size.) A player who is dissatisfied with his or her initial hand may take a mulligan. First, the starting player declares whether or not he or she will take a mulligan. Then each other player in turn order does the same. Once each player has made a declaration, all players who decided to take mulligans do so at the same time. To take a mulligan, a player shuffles his or her hand back into his or her library, then draws a new hand of one fewer cards than he or she had before. If a player kept his or her hand of cards, those cards become the player's opening hand, and that player may not take any further mulligans. This process is then repeated until no player takes a mulligan. (Note that if a player's hand size reaches zero cards, that player must keep that hand.) Then, beginning with the starting player and proceeding in turn order, any player whose opening hand has fewer cards than his or her starting hand size may scry 1.

(Note that the new CRs is not yet out, and the new MTR section on pre-game procedure doesn’t mention the new scry procedure, for some reason.)

If a player arrives at an opening hand with fewer cards than his starting hand size without actually taking a mulligan that game, is the player entitled to a free scry? For example, suppose a player that drew 8 cards by accident was issued an Improper Drawing at the Start of Game infraction, went down to 6 cards, but decided to keep those. Does he scry?

I think a technical reading of the following line:

Then, beginning with the starting player and proceeding in turn order, any player whose opening hand has fewer cards than his or her starting hand size may scry 1.

… means that yes, he does. However, this just feels weird.

Thoughts?

Thanks.


Abe

Edited Abraham Corson (Oct. 2, 2015 11:10:55 PM)

For question 2: Under additional remedies it states the following:

“Remove a number of cards, chosen randomly, equal to the excess plus one from the player's hand and shuffle them into his or her library. This is considered to be a mulligan; the player may take further mulligans if he or she desires.”

This leads me to believe that yes, they would in fact scry 1 after Improper Drawing at Start of Game. It could even mean that a player gets to scry 1 multiple times in a game from pregame procedures:

Mulligan to six while on the play, scry one. Draw on my first turn. Have ID@SoG fix applied to go to 5 cards, decide if I wish to mulligan again, then scry one again.

In terms of policy enforcement, Toby has provided an answer for Question 1: http://apps.magicjudges.org/forum/topic/21613/?page=1#post-140097

Originally posted by Toby Elliott:

If they pick up two cards and catch it before they go into hand, it's not DEC - the cards haven't gone into hand where they would be considered drawn yet - we have rules that tell you when a card is drawn.

1) as Greg noted, already answered by Toby; no, that's still Looking At Extra Cards.

2) as Christopher noted, that Remedy is considered a Mulligan; also, as you noted, Abe, the wording is simply “fewer cards than”. Yes, they would get to Scry.

d:^D

(Apologies, I didn't close the topic after confirming the ‘O’fficial answer, and then we got some unnecessary stuff…)

Edited Scott Marshall (Oct. 3, 2015 10:16:25 AM)