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Regular REL » Post: Update JAR in regards to Regular REL GPT?

Update JAR in regards to Regular REL GPT?

July 26, 2016 12:42:11 AM

John Temple
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Academy)), Scorekeeper, Tournament Organizer

Chicago, Illinois, United States of America

Update JAR in regards to Regular REL GPT?

For 2),
MTR 3.15 Sideboard
“The deck and sideboard must each be returned to their original compositions before the first game of each match.”

Since it is in the MTR it applies at all RELs which means that they can't change the original composition of their deck throughout the tournament except during limited events.

MTR 7.3 Sideboard Use (Limited Events)
“Players participating in Limited tournaments that do not use decklists may freely change the composition of their decks between matches by exchanging cards from their deck for cards in their sideboard without being required to return their deck to its original composition before their next match. The Head Judge or Tournament Organizer must inform players if this option is not being used prior to the start of deckbuilding. This option is not available at Competitive or Professional Rules Enforcement Level tournaments.”

Edit: Add more info.

July 26, 2016 12:48:39 AM

Russell Deutsch
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Northeast

Update JAR in regards to Regular REL GPT?

Yes, but at regular REL there are no real consequences for breaking those rules except for DQ.

This past weekend I ran a competitive event with decklists which had a Rakdos control list which mainboarded 2 Self Inflicted Wounds and 3 Rending Volleys.

Without the decklist, if I see him play these cards vs his opponent Game 1 am I supposed to DQ him?

July 26, 2016 01:06:44 AM

John Temple
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Academy)), Scorekeeper, Tournament Organizer

Chicago, Illinois, United States of America

Update JAR in regards to Regular REL GPT?

I would investigate just like any other situation. If the investigation
shows that he knowing played with sideboard cards during game 1 and knew it
was wrong then yes, DQ the player. If not, educate like at any other event.

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 1:49 AM Russell Deutsch <

July 26, 2016 01:21:12 AM

Bryan Prillaman
Judge (Level 5 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Southeast

Update JAR in regards to Regular REL GPT?

> On Jul 26, 2016, at 1:49 AM, Russell Deutsch <forum-28799-4be6@apps.magicjudges.org> wrote:
>
> Yes, but at regular REL there are no real consequences for breaking those rules except for DQ.
>
> This past weekend I ran a competitive event with decklists which had a Rakdos control list which mainboarded 2 Self Inflicted Wounds and 3 Rending Volleys.
>
> Without the decklist, if I see him play these cards vs his opponent Game 1 am I supposed to DQ him?
>
>
If you are concerned, ask previous round opponents if they saw certain cards in game 1

Additionally I've found asking the player about matchups and why they chose certain cards for their sideboard, and what makes them board things in/out gives you a real good baseline on if they are telling the truth.

-Bryan

July 26, 2016 04:15:42 PM

Toby Elliott
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Academy)), L3 Panel Lead

USA - Northeast

Update JAR in regards to Regular REL GPT?

You can also just do a quick scan of the deck in the next round and see if they're still there.

Aug. 18, 2016 07:46:04 PM

Jim Shuman
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy)), Scorekeeper, Tournament Organizer

USA - South

Update JAR in regards to Regular REL GPT?

As a store owner/TO as well as a judge. I'll continue using deck lists for my GPT's why put honest players at a potential disadvantage. It also helps prepare players for a more competitive event.

Use this as a training opportunity, to educate the players on the responsibility to return to original configuration. Also that they can make copies of their list and/or take a picture of it to make it easier to desideboard and return to original configuration after the match.

Edited Jim Shuman (Aug. 18, 2016 07:54:20 PM)

Aug. 19, 2016 03:35:33 AM

Mark Mc Govern
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy)), TLC

United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa

Update JAR in regards to Regular REL GPT?

I'm not particularly sure that's an option. The JAR says “If your event requires deck lists, …, it may be better to run it at Competitive rather than Regular REL”. That tells me that Regular does not give you the option to use decklists. Also, if you're going to make players fill out decklists, then you'll need to check them, otherwise you've just wasted their time. But L1 judges are not required to know how to conduct a deck check. So that doesn't work either.

Making them use decklists means they can't avail of Continuous Deckbuilding, a feature of Regular REL Limited events. You can't educate them on returning to the original configuration because that's not a requirement at GPTs any more. Similarly, part of Limited Comp REL events is the newer deck reg procedure, which is time consuming and confusing. Players unfamiliar with registering decks easily exceed the 20 minutes allowed, while those who finish in 10 are bored.

So in summary, I don't think you can enforce decklists at GPT, nor do I think it would be beneficial if you did.

Aug. 19, 2016 03:54:46 AM

Espen Skarsbø Olsen
Judge (Uncertified), Tournament Organizer

Europe - North

Update JAR in regards to Regular REL GPT?

You can use decklists at Regular. You can even use them on prereleases if you want to (not recommended).

From the MTR 2.7:

"Players are required to register their decks and sideboards (if applicable) in Competitive and Professional REL
tournaments. The Head Judge may require registration in Regular REL tournaments.


And continuous deckbuilding is an option on Regular REL (and only on Regular REL), not a set feature.

From MTR 7.2:
”Players participating in Limited tournaments that do not use decklists may freely change the composition of their
decks between matches by exchanging cards from their deck for cards in their sideboard without being required to
return their deck to its original composition before their next match. The Head Judge or Tournament Organizer
must inform players if this option is not being used prior to the start of deckbuilding. This option is not available
at Competitive or Professional REL tournaments."

Edited Espen Skarsbø Olsen (Aug. 19, 2016 03:55:15 AM)

Aug. 19, 2016 04:29:06 AM

Mark Mc Govern
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy)), TLC

United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa

Update JAR in regards to Regular REL GPT?

Ah yes, you're right. In that case I guess you can plough on with deck reg if it works for you. I feel it does kind of defeat the purpose of the change though - I've found it's hard enough to get people to want to play GPTs without adding extra paperwork, but we're in the realm of different communities wanting different things now.

Aug. 21, 2016 02:53:24 AM

Emilien Wild
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 3 (International Judge Program)), Grand Prix Head Judge

BeNeLux

Update JAR in regards to Regular REL GPT?

As usual in Regular REL, tailor the experience you're proposing to your local community.
If you know that the players attending your GPTs are people looking for transition from Regular REL to Competitive REL, you can indeed use them as a training ground and provide them decklists so they can be used to it.

But don't assume that every player attending a GPT is looking for a such training - a lot of casual players are really happy about just being able to register, open some booster packs, and play, without any interest about becoming more competitive.

- Emilien

Aug. 21, 2016 06:43:09 PM

Stefan Keil
Judge (Level 1 (Judge Academy))

German-speaking countries

Update JAR in regards to Regular REL GPT?

I really liked the comment from you, Emilien, and wanted to add something. Because I think we do not need to assume if the players are up to competetive event or not. Simply by coordinating with the TO/Store Owner we do not need any assumptions and have less work. Because he/she is the one announcing the event and knowing which people he/she expects. This is what I learned from my short time as a judge: The better you coordinate with the TO and the better the TO communicates what can be expected from the event, the easier it is for you to deliver a great (and expected) game experience to the players.