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Knowledge Pool Scenarios » Post: Don't short-sleeve yourself! - SILVER

Don't short-sleeve yourself! - SILVER

Dec. 12, 2017 03:10:58 PM

Pi Fisher
Judge (Level 1 (Judge Academy)), Scorekeeper

USA - Northeast

Don't short-sleeve yourself! - SILVER

I've read some but not all of the replies.

I think it's weird to say “Amy intended to play a 40-card deck, so this is a Decklist Problem”. I think that's the wrong meaning of “intended”. Suppose it was a Modern event, and Amy has a few decks at home, all with printed decklists in the boxes. She wanted to bring Tron to the event, but all the deck boxes and sleeves are identical, so she accidentally brings Lantern. She gives the decklist in the box to the judge, and gets ready for round 1. When she draws her opening hand, she realises her error. In this situation, she's not playing the deck she intended to play, but I would be hard-pressed to give a penalty for that. In the original scenario, instead of bringing the wrong deck box, she failed to count 40 cards during deck building.

In the definition of TE-Tardiness, I read
If, before or during a match, a player requests permission from a judge for a delay for a legitimate task,
such as a bathroom break or finding replacements for missing cards, that player may have up to 10 minutes to perform that task before he or she is considered tardy. If the player takes more than 10 minutes, a Match Loss will be applied. Otherwise, no penalty will be applied and a time extension given for the time taken.
Once Amy has confirmed that she has the deck she registered, I think she has, during a match, asked for permission to delay the match so she can re-sleeve her deck (or at least the one card). I'd give her 10 minutes to sleeve her deck (or play without sleeves), and explain that if it takes longer than 10 minutes, she'll get a Match Loss.

Also, I'm assuming this happened before presentation. If this was caught after presentation somehow, it'd be Marked Cards with an upgrade (Game Loss), but minimal Cheating investigation (since it sounds like there's plenty of evidence to suggest it was unintentional).

Dec. 12, 2017 05:01:15 PM

Maxime Emond
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Foundry))

Canada

Don't short-sleeve yourself! - SILVER

Mark : yes. Entirely and i do see your point. It, however, rubs the opposite direction as what Sophie and Andrew have proposed as possible fixes as well. One things for sure is that scenario really got my head thinking. I guess we will have to see how the team at KP sees our discution and how they would rule it. But this has been a learning experience to say the least! Thank you for your input!

Dec. 12, 2017 05:01:18 PM

Maxime Emond
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Foundry))

Canada

Don't short-sleeve yourself! - SILVER

Mark : yes. Entirely and i do see your point. It, however, rubs the opposite direction as what Sophie and Andrew have proposed as possible fixes as well. One things for sure is that scenario really got my head thinking. I guess we will have to see how the team at KP sees our discution and how they would rule it. But this has been a learning experience to say the least! Thank you for your input!

Dec. 12, 2017 06:56:17 PM

Joe Klopchic
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 5 (Judge Foundry))

Seattle, Washington, United States of America

Don't short-sleeve yourself! - SILVER

Well, that was quite the discussion this week.

Lets look at a few things that people brought up.

Maxime mentioned the 10 minute time we give players to fix some problem. If we rule out any infraction here, we're going to give Amy these 10 minutes to fix her deck.

Onto possible infractions!

This isn't a Deck Problem, as Amy has not presented her deck.

Similarly, this isn't Marked Cards, since Amy isn't trying to play with the cards. She brought this to our attention.

You all talked quite a bit about Tardiness as well, but issuing that infraction wasn't brought up at all. There is a bit of an angle here where we could say that Amy wasn't ready for her round 1 match in time, because she hadn't finished sleeving. That doesn't fit with what Tardiness actually says:

A player is not in his or her seat at the beginning of a round, or has not completed tasks assigned within
the time allocated.

Finishing sleeving is certainly a “reasonable task” as everyone pretty much agreed upon, and Amy is in her seat. We won't issue Tardiness then.

Finally, the point of contention. Decklist Problem!

A quick read of the definition:

The decklist is illegal, doesn’t match what the player intended to play, or needs to be modified due to card
loss over the course of the tournament.

Sophie pointed out that she felt the “doesn't match what the player intended to play” applies here. Pi has provided the counterpoint: did Amy actually intend to play 40 cards? She may have intended to build a 40 card deck, but that's not what she ended up doing.

The answer for this scenario is that Pi is correct. This is not a Decklist Problem, as the deck that Amy is trying to play matches the decklist. Amy may know that she wanted to build a 40 card deck, but she both physically built a 41 card deck, and wrote that on her deck list. There is no infraction or penalty. Amy has 10 minutes to find a suitable sleeve, resleeve her deck, or otherwise make it ready to play. As an extra emphasis, we're already a few minutes into this call, and a long time extension will be issued. Helping Amy resleeve is an excellent use of your time to help this match get started faster.