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Competitive REL » Post: Looking for an official answer on simultaneous game losses, and when they offset

Looking for an official answer on simultaneous game losses, and when they offset

Jan. 8, 2019 04:36:41 AM [Original Post]

Olivier Jansen
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

USA - Northeast

Looking for an official answer on simultaneous game losses, and when they offset

Nearly had this happen yesterday, and asking around, a bunch of different judges had different answers, so I'm hoping to get an response.

Player A shows up for a comp rel event, and his decklist isn't ready. He ends up with a game loss for tardiness.

His opponent, Player N, is late for the event, and shows up at his round 1 seat 6 minutes into the start of the round. He is issued a game loss for tardiness.


Do …
Nearly had this happen yesterday, and asking around, a bunch of different judges had different answers, so I'm hoping to get an response.

Player A shows up for a comp rel event, and his decklist isn't ready. He ends up with a game loss for tardiness.

His opponent, Player N, is late for the event, and shows up at his round 1 seat 6 minutes into the start of the round. He is issued a game loss for tardiness.


Do these game losses offset each other, and we go into a Bo3?

Some misc questions to go along:
Who chooses to be on the play or draw for Game 1?

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Jan. 8, 2019 11:53:28 PM [Marked as Accepted Answer]

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Northwest

Looking for an official answer on simultaneous game losses, and when they offset

A follow-up question was posed (privately), about my use of “do not affect the match score”. I apologize, I sometimes use English very casually, and that can confuse my meaning for non-native English speakers.

The example and question asked:
After game one, a midround deck check awards a Game Loss to each player. Is the match over, recorded 1-0?

In that example, the match continues until one player has won two games (or time expires).

To clarify, simultaneous Game Loss …
A follow-up question was posed (privately), about my use of “do not affect the match score”. I apologize, I sometimes use English very casually, and that can confuse my meaning for non-native English speakers.

The example and question asked:
After game one, a midround deck check awards a Game Loss to each player. Is the match over, recorded 1-0?

In that example, the match continues until one player has won two games (or time expires).

To clarify, simultaneous Game Loss penalties are treated as if they never happened, and the match continues as per usual - but the penalties are still recorded as Game Loss in the reporting software.

In the very unlikely corner case where both players receive, simultaneously, Game Loss penalty during a game, just let that game and match continue (and record the penalties). This is unlikely, but if both players have already received multiple Warnings for GRV, then commit a double-GRV, it's possible…

d:^D

Edit: I've been informed by the MagicFest scorekeepers that they are able to assess Match Losses for both players; this has already been necessary for double no-shows, fairly common at GPs last year. Please use that, instead of undoing the match (as illustrated by Francesco's post); undoing the match is a useful trick when various other things go wrong and you need to re-pair just a couple matches.

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Edited Scott Marshall (Jan. 27, 2019 12:40:28 PM)

Jan. 26, 2019 10:30:11 PM

Siyang Li
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

Greater China

Looking for an official answer on simultaneous game losses, and when they offset

This method has one flaw, which would cause an unwanted situation where both players would face each other in later rounds. And this actually happened in the case I mentioned earlier, the judge did exactly the same thing to unmatch both players trying to create a double loss result, and they faced each other again in the final rounds in the Swiss, then they just IDed and both entered top 8 as a result.

Originally posted by Francesco Scialpi:

Originally posted by Clint Lee:

Hi Scott

With the new IDAW and Bribery changes, it will be more likely that we may have to assess double match losses, from what I gather WER does not allow this. Are there any guidelines with regards to handling such a situation?

- Click on Edit Matches
- Select match
- Click on Un-Match
- Select both players in the right panel
- Click on Grant Loss
- Click on Done

Edit: image removed.

Edited Scott Marshall (Jan. 27, 2019 12:36:29 PM)

Jan. 27, 2019 12:42:18 PM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Northwest

Looking for an official answer on simultaneous game losses, and when they offset

I've updated the ‘O’fficial answer for this thread; please, don't undo a match in order to award a double Match Loss. I've been informed that it's possible to assess a double loss, and - as others have mentioned - undoing the match could cause further problems, later in the tournament.

d:^D

Jan. 28, 2019 05:14:40 PM

David Larrea
Judge (Level 3 (International Judge Program)), Scorekeeper

Iberia

Looking for an official answer on simultaneous game losses, and when they offset

Can you elaborate further on how to assess a Double Match Loss with WER?
GPs at MF are run with Walter which is slightly different than WER. I've never faced such situation before but always wondered about it and now looks more plausible. So I'd like to know what is the method we should follow in order to assess both players a ML wihtout undoing pairings with WER and avoid later issues.

Jan. 28, 2019 05:51:37 PM

Clint Lee
Judge (Uncertified), Scorekeeper

United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa

Looking for an official answer on simultaneous game losses, and when they offset

Hi David

If you enter a match loss penalty for both players in that round, WER automatically makes both their results 0-2
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