Magic Judges Forum / Competitive REL / "Dude you tapped too many lands"

Erin Leonard · May 20, 2019 04:22:19 PM

Spectator Sam has finished playing his match and is watching Aditya and Ned's match.
Aditya taps 6 lands then casts a 5 mana Teferi.
Sam says, “Dude, you tapped too many lands.”

You, the judge, are nearby and see this occur. What do you do?

Scott Marshall · May 21, 2019 07:07:43 AM

Step one: “hang on a second, folks; Aditya, you just played Teferi, right? … OK, Ned, do you recall which lands were tapped to pay for that? you know, that's six mana, right? and Teferi only costs 3UW?” all while observing Ned and even Aditya for their reactions; this gives you an early read on the possibility that Ned just wasn't going to correct an error they noticed.

From there, it's pretty easy to get Aditya to tap correctly, confirm with …

Step one: “hang on a second, folks; Aditya, you just played Teferi, right? … OK, Ned, do you recall which lands were tapped to pay for that? you know, that's six mana, right? and Teferi only costs 3UW?” all while observing Ned and even Aditya for their reactions; this gives you an early read on the possibility that Ned just wasn't going to correct an error they noticed.

From there, it's pretty easy to get Aditya to tap correctly, confirm with Ned that all is OK, and let them keep playing. (The most likely outcome; if your “spidey-sense” tingles in step one, you may pursue a chat with Ned, see what's in each player's hand to help you understand possible advantages, lines of play, etc.)

Step two: OK, keep playing - sorry for the interruption. Sam, can I speak with you, please? … (away from match) “Hey, at Competitive REL, if you see a problem, it's OK to ask the players to pause while you get a judge, and tell them - AWAY FROM THE TABLE - what you think went wrong. Please let Judges handle the actual infractions and any remedies. Oh, and - at Professional REL? you can't even stop the match, just get a judge ASAP.”

No infractions (in almost every reasonably conceivable case), no real harm done, good intentions all around.

d:^D

[Expand/Collapse Forum Post]

Dustin De Leeuw · May 21, 2019 06:26:51 AM

Originally posted by Eli Meyer:

99% of the time it’s bookkeeping and 1% of the time it’s a violation, therefore 0% of the time is it a valid strategic play that a spectator gave away.

This perfectly sums up the discussion regarding Spectator Sam, I appreciate your concise wording here!

Regarding Aditya: barring extreme corner cases, they made a simple mistake that we should just fix if possible with a simple back up. If caught immediately, get on with the game. If actions have been taken since, I believe the judge should issue a GRV/FtMGS by the book… but I don't like this at all, to be honest.

Scott Marshall · May 21, 2019 07:07:43 AM

Step one: “hang on a second, folks; Aditya, you just played Teferi, right? … OK, Ned, do you recall which lands were tapped to pay for that? you know, that's six mana, right? and Teferi only costs 3UW?” all while observing Ned and even Aditya for their reactions; this gives you an early read on the possibility that Ned just wasn't going to correct an error they noticed.

From there, it's pretty easy to get Aditya to tap correctly, confirm with Ned that all is OK, and let them keep playing. (The most likely outcome; if your “spidey-sense” tingles in step one, you may pursue a chat with Ned, see what's in each player's hand to help you understand possible advantages, lines of play, etc.)

Step two: OK, keep playing - sorry for the interruption. Sam, can I speak with you, please? … (away from match) “Hey, at Competitive REL, if you see a problem, it's OK to ask the players to pause while you get a judge, and tell them - AWAY FROM THE TABLE - what you think went wrong. Please let Judges handle the actual infractions and any remedies. Oh, and - at Professional REL? you can't even stop the match, just get a judge ASAP.”

No infractions (in almost every reasonably conceivable case), no real harm done, good intentions all around.

d:^D

Brook Gardner-Durbin · May 21, 2019 07:16:27 AM

We want Outside Assistance to apply in cases where one person is helping the player in the match, and not apply where a player is trying to fix something wrong in the match but is unaware of how we want that handled.

In this case, the most likely scenario is that the spectator thought the player they were watching was tapping too many lands by accident, and they were correcting an error in the match. Giving the player a Match Loss for this would be quite harsh, and not achieve anything good for us. We want players to call attention to problems in matches, whether it's one they are playing in or one they are watching - giving the player a match loss in this scenario, when they were (most likely) trying to do exactly what we want players to do, would teach the player the wrong lessons.

Please keep the forum protocol in mind when posting.

May 20, 2019 04:22:19 PM [Original Post]

"Dude you tapped too many lands"

May 21, 2019 07:07:43 AM [Marked as Accepted Answer]

"Dude you tapped too many lands"

May 21, 2019 06:26:51 AM

"Dude you tapped too many lands"

May 21, 2019 07:07:43 AM [Marked as Accepted Answer]

"Dude you tapped too many lands"

May 21, 2019 07:16:27 AM

"Dude you tapped too many lands"