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Competitive REL » Post: missed triggers: "choices involving objects"

missed triggers: "choices involving objects"

June 20, 2019 10:30:37 AM [Original Post]

Toby Hazes
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

BeNeLux

missed triggers: "choices involving objects"

How broad is the scope of “No player may make choices involving objects that would not have been legal choices when the ability should have triggered.”

For example, a player forgets their Summoner's Pact trigger, plays a land, then while in combat remembers they forgot to pay. Assuming it was unintentional and the trigger is resolved, are they allowed to tap the land they played?

Edited Scott Marshall (June 20, 2019 07:54:08 PM)

June 20, 2019 11:08:05 PM [Marked as Accepted Answer]

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

missed triggers: "choices involving objects"

Eser, you touched on the most important part here: we need to investigate and be sure it's not Cheating.

An easy example is where the player didn't have enough mana to pay for the Pact until they played a land for the turn. It's not absolutely Cheating, but it's quite suspicious.

However, once we've decided it's not Cheating, then it's just back to Toby's original question: can a player tap a land they didn't have when the trigger should have resolved, to correctly resolve that trigger (assuming the trigger gets put on the stack). The answer is Yes, because mana isn't one of the choices we were concerned about when adding that clause to the Missed Trigger policy. It really is as simple as “you can't sacrifice a creature to resolve a trigger if that creature didn't exist when the trigger should have fired.”

d:^D

June 20, 2019 11:03:06 AM

Eser Unger
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

German-speaking countries

missed triggers: "choices involving objects"

I am not sure I understand your question? Are you asking if Anna can tap a land for abilities that involve a cost if it was forgotten and is placed later on the stack due to Nigel wanting the ability to resolve even if the land that Anna would tap for it was not on the battlefield before? (example: "at the beginning of your upkeep you may pay 2 mana, if you do your creatures get +1/+1 until end of turn)

I believe tapping lands for that which were not there before does not count as choice you make while placing the ability on the stack or while resolving. I think that goes more for abilities that contain modes or involve cards that have not been in the zone but could be targeted when you place the ability on the stack or choosen as an ability resolves.

So yes, Anna would be able to tap their land for mana.

June 20, 2019 11:11:38 AM

Toby Hazes
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

BeNeLux

missed triggers: "choices involving objects"

Oh lol I used the wrong formatting and I can't edit my post? Within the brackets should be Summoner's Pact. So they forget their pact trigger and want to pay for it later.

June 20, 2019 11:57:47 AM

Eser Unger
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

German-speaking countries

missed triggers: "choices involving objects"

Originally posted by Toby Hazes:

Oh lol I used the wrong formatting and I can't edit my post? Within the brackets should be Summoner's Pact. So they forget their pact trigger and want to pay for it later.

Oh! I see! Concluding cheating is not the case I believe that it does not matter if the triggered ability was from a pact or any other ability that works the same way, Anna would still be able to use their lands as they are not defined with the “choice” for resolving missed trigger.

June 20, 2019 11:08:05 PM [Marked as Accepted Answer]

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

missed triggers: "choices involving objects"

Eser, you touched on the most important part here: we need to investigate and be sure it's not Cheating.

An easy example is where the player didn't have enough mana to pay for the Pact until they played a land for the turn. It's not absolutely Cheating, but it's quite suspicious.

However, once we've decided it's not Cheating, then it's just back to Toby's original question: can a player tap a land they didn't have when the trigger should have resolved, to correctly resolve that trigger (assuming the trigger gets put on the stack). The answer is Yes, because mana isn't one of the choices we were concerned about when adding that clause to the Missed Trigger policy. It really is as simple as “you can't sacrifice a creature to resolve a trigger if that creature didn't exist when the trigger should have fired.”

d:^D

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