Hi there,
we're having a little of an argument locally, since an L1 complained that his TO had the players listing the played deck at the Theros Prerelease, while letting them talk during construction. In the judge opinion, this is a violation of MTR 2.7.

Someone else pointed out that “continuous construction” at prereleases should be mandatory.

However, the discussion is not settling down, because there's no written document explaining in detail the policy for prereleases.

My interpretation, derived from experience, but also from the articles on the front page and from the prereleases info kit, is that listing, constructing, swapping and even talking should be considered separate “options” available to the TO (although not having people talking would be REALLY weird at a prerel). This would be a “non-written” fact sheet that takes precedence over MTR 2.7. Maybe this view is too much of a stretch to the rule? I don't know, so I decided for asking you. :)

Thanks and best regards
Donato

Edited Donato Del Giudice (Sept. 24, 2013 02:30:44 AM)

I mean, generally, I would want to know why a TO was insisting on using deck lists at a prerelease tournament. This kind of administrative paperwork is pretty discouraged, seeing as it is against the idea of the event being fun, relaxed and accessible.

Different locations have varying needs. We typically use decklists for
pools at my prereleases, because players demand them.


On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Kim Warren <
forum-6112-3c7b@apps.magicjudges.org> wrote:

> I mean, generally, I would want to know why a TO was insisting on using
> deck lists at a prerelease tournament. This kind of administrative
> paperwork is pretty discouraged, seeing as it is against the idea of the
> event being fun, relaxed and accessible.
>
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–
Adam Cetnerowski
Gdansk, Poland

I can just about understand deck lists for pools - though I feel that it is excessive and of marginal gain (I can understand using them if faced with serious cheating concerns, but I think that the scope to add cards to pools at prereleases is pretty limited due to the accessibility of cards at this point in the set release cycle - and you pretty much need to pair it with a deck swap for it to have any utility at all, which is the kind of thing that is pretty feel bad for a prerelease). However, what Donato seems to be suggesting is that players were actually having to list the deck that they were going to be playing? This is what I cannot see any reasons for.

Originally posted by Kim Warren:

what Donato seems to be suggesting is that players were actually having to list the deck that they were going to be playing?

That's it.

Originally posted by Kim Warren:

I mean, generally, I would want to know why a TO was insisting on using deck lists at a prerelease tournament. This kind of administrative paperwork is pretty discouraged, seeing as it is against the idea of the event being fun, relaxed and accessible.

That's pretty much the point of the judge that started the topic. He found the thing “disruptive” to the event, pointing out pretty categorically that if you have people listing decks, you should be following MTR 2.7. His counter-argument is: “since it's impossible to restrain people from talking to a prerelease, you should not enforce 2.7 and so not to have people listing decks.”

I really struggle to see such a correlation but maybe it's just me?

Edited Donato Del Giudice (Sept. 24, 2013 04:37:06 AM)

Feel free to point out to the judge that unless stated elsewhere there is no penalty for players violating the MTR.

Note that the following is contained in section 1.10 of the MTR:
A player must bring the following items to a tournament in order to participate:
• A physical, visible, and reliable method to maintain and record game information (tokens, score
counters, pen and paper, and so on)

Please do not turn away players who did not bring a pen. Please do not kick players out of your events who didn't bother to bring a pen even if they knew they should have brought a pen. If you cannot get players to bring those items, deciding not to run events because of it is probably bad. (this is a parallel)

If players are breaking a rule that is only in the MTR, you have the ability to ask the players to correct their behavior.

In my personal experience, taking pictures of sealed pools at prereleases is effective. It helps your TO and player base feel safe while also maintaining fun.

[quote=William Anderson
Note that the following is contained in section 1.10 of the MTR:
A player must bring the following items to a tournament in order to participate:
• A physical, visible, and reliable method to maintain and record game information (tokens, score
counters, pen and paper, and so on)

Please do not turn away players who did not bring a pen. Please do not kick players out of your events who didn't bother to bring a pen even if they knew they should have brought a pen. If you cannot get players to bring those items, deciding not to run events because of it is probably bad. (this is a parallel)

If players are breaking a rule that is only in the MTR, you have the ability to ask the players to correct their behavior.

Agreed. If you want to incentivize players to bring a pen, charge them a dollar or a similar amount for one.