Originally posted by Darrin Sisneros:

1. I understand what you're saying. What I am saying is that no other actions have occurred since the announcement to change targets. The new chosen target is illegal, therefore no game actions can occur. However, there are currently no legal targets. Even the original target of Chimera is now illegal since it changed controllers and is no longer attacking. No legal targets means the spell doesn't resolve anyway. Why then should we back up at all?

2. My understanding is that changing control of Chimera, taking control of Divine Verdict and choosing the new targets are all part of resolving Chimera's trigger. The trigger doesn't resolve before targets are changed. Therefore, we can't back up to number 5 since that actually all takes place as part of number 3. I think this falls in line with Scott's Doom Blade example. We either back up the trigger completely or not at all. So either we leave the game state as is, with the Divine Verdict on an illegal target or we back it up to the trigger being placed on the stack.

With regard to that, triggered and activated abilities aren't necessarily functionally the same as casting a spell, specifically not in regard to how we handle rewinding them. To a certain extent, you have to define what constitutes an action. For me, choosing to exchange control and choosing to change targets are two separate actions. They occur as the spell is resolving, but they definitely are separate actions. The CR even state that “The controller of the spell or ability follows its instructions in the order written.” Exchange of control happens, then changing targets happens, but as two distinct actions during resolution of the ability. As such, I see no problem rewinding to the point mid-resolution when the action was taken that was illegal. However, the legal action prior to that(exchanging control) will remain.

Spells are different because we consider the casting of a spell to be a single, complex block-action. We rewind the whole casting of a spell because we consider the casting of a spell(putting it onto the stack) to involve one action with many parts.

I understand now. Thank you for the very helpful explanations. I learn something everyday on the forums.

Originally posted by Alan Dreher:

With regard to that, triggered and activated abilities aren't necessarily functionally the same as casting a spell, specifically not in regard to how we handle rewinding them.

I would just like to add that activated abilities are handled in much the same way that casting spells are, but yeah triggered abilities are different.

Originally posted by Darrin Sisneros:

Question: Does backing up even matter?

the back up (or how far do we back up) matters here, because depending on where we rewind to, it could end up with two different game state:

- Back up until the changing the target of Divine Verdict: the exchange is locked in, Chimera will be under Nico's control, but Verdict will have illegal target (Chimera no longer attacking) and is removed from the stack.

- Back up until the resolution of Chimera's trigger, where Angelo will most likely choose not to switch control. Essentially choosing to let his Chimera dies to the Verdict, rather than letting Nico gains control of it.

Edited Maykel . (May 27, 2014 03:02:09 AM)