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Copying a Copy Card That's Not Copying Anything
Oct. 13, 2012 06:38:52 AM
- Topher Hickman
- Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))
- USA - Midatlantic
Copying a Copy Card That's Not Copying Anything
Hello all,
Joshua Feingold of Williamsburg brought us a very interesting discussion topic at the PTQ in Virginia Beach in May. (I've been unable to post to the rules list since then, but now that we have this shiny new forum…)
Our scenario assumes we start with a Phyrexian Metamorph on the battlefield that is copying nothing and has a +1/+1 counter on it (likely from a board wipe when it was copying a creature with Undying, but that's not important).
At this point the Metamorph is only its printed text and nothing more. A player then casts and resolves a vanilla creature, let's say Runeclaw Bear.
Now, that player casts and resolves a Phantasmal Image, choosing to copy the Phyrexian Metamorph. Here is where our discussions got divisive. Assuming that the player chooses to copy the Runeclaw Bear as the copied “As Phyrexian Metamorph enters the battlefield” effect is applied, per rule 706.5, what is the resulting permanent?
Specifically, what is the permanent's type and subtypes and what abilities does it have (if any)?
Topher
Area Judge, Richmond, VA
Reference:
Locked by Scott M, while we await an answer.
Joshua Feingold of Williamsburg brought us a very interesting discussion topic at the PTQ in Virginia Beach in May. (I've been unable to post to the rules list since then, but now that we have this shiny new forum…)
Our scenario assumes we start with a Phyrexian Metamorph on the battlefield that is copying nothing and has a +1/+1 counter on it (likely from a board wipe when it was copying a creature with Undying, but that's not important).
At this point the Metamorph is only its printed text and nothing more. A player then casts and resolves a vanilla creature, let's say Runeclaw Bear.
Now, that player casts and resolves a Phantasmal Image, choosing to copy the Phyrexian Metamorph. Here is where our discussions got divisive. Assuming that the player chooses to copy the Runeclaw Bear as the copied “As Phyrexian Metamorph enters the battlefield” effect is applied, per rule 706.5, what is the resulting permanent?
Specifically, what is the permanent's type and subtypes and what abilities does it have (if any)?
Topher
Area Judge, Richmond, VA
Reference:
Locked by Scott M, while we await an answer.
Edited Scott Marshall (Oct. 13, 2012 07:03:41 AM)
Oct. 17, 2012 04:14:23 AM
- Daniel Kitachewsky
- Judge (Uncertified)
- France
Copying a Copy Card That's Not Copying Anything
It will be a 2/2 Artifact Creature - Bear with no abilities.
As Phantasmal Image enters the battlefield, you process any replacement effects that modify this event. There's only one - you choose something to copy. Then, another one applies - the Phantasmal Image/Phyrexian Metamorph can copy something. The Runeclaw Bear is chosen.
Now, when you want to know what the object looks like on the battlefield, you use layers. Copy effects with additional effects (such as setting a type or giving an ability) apply entirely in layer 1 (this is an exception to the general principle that effects each apply in its appropriate layer). You first apply Phantasmal Image's effect, which makes the object a copy of Phyrexian Metamorph as printed, with the sacrifice ability and Illusion creature type. Then you apply Phyrexian Metamorph's effect, which when it becomes a copy of Runeclaw Bear wipes out the previous values, including the ability and the creature type. In the end, only Phyrexian Metamorph's copying effect leaves any traces on the object, so it's an artifact.
Daniel Kitachewsky
L3, Paris, France
Rules Netrep
As Phantasmal Image enters the battlefield, you process any replacement effects that modify this event. There's only one - you choose something to copy. Then, another one applies - the Phantasmal Image/Phyrexian Metamorph can copy something. The Runeclaw Bear is chosen.
Now, when you want to know what the object looks like on the battlefield, you use layers. Copy effects with additional effects (such as setting a type or giving an ability) apply entirely in layer 1 (this is an exception to the general principle that effects each apply in its appropriate layer). You first apply Phantasmal Image's effect, which makes the object a copy of Phyrexian Metamorph as printed, with the sacrifice ability and Illusion creature type. Then you apply Phyrexian Metamorph's effect, which when it becomes a copy of Runeclaw Bear wipes out the previous values, including the ability and the creature type. In the end, only Phyrexian Metamorph's copying effect leaves any traces on the object, so it's an artifact.
Daniel Kitachewsky
L3, Paris, France
Rules Netrep