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Rules Q&A » Post: Copy "surge" wit h Geistblast

Copy "surge" wit h Geistblast

April 3, 2016 01:25:46 PM

Olle Liljefeldt
Judge (Level 1 (Judge Academy))

Europe - North

Copy "surge" wit h Geistblast

In SoI FAQ, I read this:

If an alternative cost was paid for the spell, such as its madness cost or surge cost, the same alternative
cost is considered to have been paid for the copy.


While I do see the need of a fix for the interaction with e.g. Avacyn's Judgement, I cannot find an reason to make this a copyable attribute. Nor do I find support for it in the rules. As a copied Bring to Light will not copy the amount of colored mana paid for it, why would a copied Crush of Tentacles generate an otcopus? It makes no sense.

Copying Avacyn's Judgement resulting in X damage and a division stands on its own by rule 706.2


706.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object’s
characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode,
targets, the value of X
, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The
“copiable values” are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name,
mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and/or
loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by its face-down status, and by “as . . . enters the
battlefield” and “as . . . is turned face up” abilities that set power and toughness (and may also set
additional characteristics). Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status,
and counters are not copied.


Would be great if you could point out where in the rules it makes sence that a copy of a surged spell also is surged. Or madnessed for that matter.

April 13, 2016 03:17:27 PM

Nathan Long
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Southwest

Copy "surge" wit h Geistblast

Here we go:

706.10. To copy a spell, activated ability, or triggered ability means to put a copy of it onto the stack; a copy of a spell isn’t cast and a copy of an activated ability isn’t activated. A copy of a spell or ability copies both the characteristics of the spell or ability and all decisions made for it, including modes, targets, the value of X, and additional or alternative costs. (See rule 601, “Casting Spells.”) Choices that are normally made on resolution are not copied. If an effect of the copy refers to objects used to pay its costs, it uses the objects used to pay the costs of the original spell or ability. A copy of a spell is owned by the player under whose control it was put on the stack. A copy of a spell or ability is controlled by the player under whose control it was put on the stack. A copy of a spell is itself a spell, even though it has no spell card associated with it. A copy of an ability is itself an ability.

Surge and madness are alternate costs, and are copiable. If you copy a spell cast via surge or madness, the fact that you cast it via an alternate cost is copiable. So copying a Crush of Tentacles cast via surge will means the copy was also cast via surge (although unless you can deal with the original, your token will get bounced), and copying Avacyn's Judgment cast via madness with X=5 means you also get an Avacyn's Judgment that was cast via madness with X=5.

Nathan Long
Magic Rules NetRep