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Rules Q&A » Post: Controlling another player's Withengar Unbound / Blood Tyrant

Controlling another player's Withengar Unbound / Blood Tyrant

Feb. 16, 2015 08:43:07 AM

Mario Haßler
Judge (Uncertified)

German-speaking countries

Controlling another player's Withengar Unbound / Blood Tyrant

In a multiplayer game, Anna controls Withengar Unbound, and Bob has gained control of a Blood Tyrant whose owner is Chuck. Then Chuck loses the game, causing the ability of Withengar Unbound to trigger, and Dora wants to Stifle it. The question is: Has the ability of Chuck's Blood Tyrant triggered too (under control of Bob)? In this case, Anna could Redirect Dora's Stifle to that ability.

I find it hard to tell, because CR 800.4a states that Chuck and his Blood Tyrant leave the game at the same time, and it also makes clear that these aren't state-based actions. Also, “losing/leaving the game” is a transition, and the question is, whether the leaving object is considered to be on the battlefield during that transition or not. It would be easier when CR 104.5 would describe a two-step process: first, a player loses the game (allowing abilities to trigger), second, this is transformed into the consequences (the player and his cards leave the game). But to me, it doesn't look like that.

I couldn't find similar cases. The closest match I can think of is a 0/0 creature with a +1/+1 counter that gets a -1/-1 counter. State-based actions will remove the counters and put the creature into the graveyard at the same time, but it's enough to satisfy the triggered abilities of Necroskitter and Blowfly Infestation. However, these are state-based actions and zone-change triggers with their own special rules.

Any help is appreciated. Thank you.

Kind regards,

Mario Hassler

March 24, 2015 06:05:12 PM

Callum Milne
Forum Moderator
Judge (Uncertified)

Canada - Western Provinces

Controlling another player's Withengar Unbound / Blood Tyrant

Keep in mind that posts to this forum get emailed to a very large number of judges all around the world, and as such isn't really an appropriate venue for discussing obscure corner cases, which this definitely is. If you're interested in digging into the theory behind corner cases, I would suggest heading to Rules Theory and Templating and discussing it there. If you're just looking for an answer, there are any number of other places to get them that will have a faster response time, such as the Magic Rulings board on MTGSalvation or the #mtgrules channel on IRC.
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